The MacroPolicebox: Second Regeneration (D&D 4E Framework)

[StarMan]

If you call the Damage macro directly then the transaction won't be registered with the "Undo" subsystem. Let's say you did damage to a creature that was supposed to be resistant to necrotic but was not rendered so through a misconfiguration (or whatever). How are you going to take back that component on a successful hit? It is recommended you use Register Effect for this purpose.

I wrote the Usage here before writing the Undo function which is why it is phrased in this manner. I will likely revise this section soon. What "BaseDamage" are you referring to? Which macro is it located in?

One more issue I ran into is to do with, again, how to handle basic attacks for NPCs/monsters. The Bone Quarterstaff power, for example, is the standard melee at-will for the monster defined in it's stat-block. But that can hardly be treated as a melee basic attack. How do I go about using a basic melee attack power with that monster? Do I define it separately by hand?

There's actually nothing wrong with ignoring Point 4 listed here. The RACK will merrily convert basic powers just like any other. You should then be able to select it normally from the creature's at-wills.

A simpler solution might be to remove the "&& isPC()" from the IF statement in "m Melee Basic" on the MPB. Gotta tell you though, it's still kinda weird that there's a monster out there without a melee basic power. You should report that to WOTC as a bug, if you ask me.

BTW, I still think 10 seconds of lag is unacceptable since a 512Kbps upload speed is quite adequate. How big are your rptoks? Can you post the power giving the problem? Does the lag vary depending on the number of tokens affected? What kind of machine are you using? If you try playing with a Pentium IV with 1Gb of RAM then you will get way more lag than a quad-core powerhouse with 8Gb, good NIC and a fast hard drive.

[jfrazierjr]

If you call the Damage macro directly then the transaction won't be registered with the "Undo" subsystem. Let's say you did damage to a creature that was supposed to be resistant to necrotic but was not rendered so through a misconfiguration (or whatever). How are you going to tske back that component on a successful hit? It is recommended you use Register Effect for this purpose.

I wrote the Usage here before writing the Undo function which is why it is phrased in this manner. I will likely revise this section soon. What "BaseDamage" are you referring to? Which macro is it located in?

One more issue I ran into is to do with, again, how to handle basic attacks for NPCs/monsters. The Bone Quarterstaff power, for example, is the standard melee at-will for the monster defined in it's stat-block. But that can hardly be treated as a melee basic attack. How do I go about using a basic melee attack power with that monster? Do I define it separately by hand?

There's actually nothing wrong with ignoring Point 4 listed here. The RACK will merrily convert basic powers just like any other. You should then be able to select it normally from the creature's at-wills.

A simpler solution might be to remove the "&& isPC()" from the IF statement in "m Melee Basic" on the MPB. Gotta tell you though, it's still kinda weird that there's a monster out there without a melee basic power. You should report that to WOTC as a bug, if you ask me.

BTW, I still think 10 seconds of lag is unacceptable since a 512Kbps upload speed is quite adequate. How big are your rptoks? Can you post the power giving the problem? Does the lag vary depending on the number of tokens affected? What kind of machine are you using? If you try playing with a Pentium IV with 1Gb of RAM then you will get way more lag than a quad-core powerhouse with 8Gb, good NIC and a fast hard drive.

Also, your VBL setup(ie, is it draw "right" or do you have issues with how it is drawn), vision distance for affected tokens, number of macros on the token(AND if the selection/impersonated panel is visible on the screen during moves), Server settings (Autoreveal FOW on player move/Individual FOW, etc) as well as many other factors can affect lag.

[StarMan]

Those are good points but he said it only happens with one particular power on one of the tokens which is why I am focused on determining what is special about that one case. I am inferring this happens on all maps regardless of the VBL complexity ... but he can correct me on that. Unlike most frameworks, my Selection panel only has about a dozen macros. This design decision dates back to Build 74 before the Selection panel redraw problem was resolved. The performance improvement with my group at the time (which had two remote players) was very noticeable.

The important thing to remember is he has tried other frameworks so I would be interested in knowing how the MPB compares in that regard with all other factors (FOW, # of tokens, etc) being equal.

[StarMan]

BTW, I saw your video and I love it. That's something I would like for a 3.5 framework, but more formed based rather than input. Ideally, a form pop up with you in center and potential enemies in their respective position. You would have your weapon of choice in hands and just click the target to attack for each attack where it applies damage automatically. The order of attacks and who gets hit with what is all dynamic. This will allow for a cleave mid attack, or you can switch to offhand for one attack and then back to your main.

ps - Here's a side note on evalMacro. I can't say for sure, but I believe this to be true that using evalMacro adds to your stacksize. IMO, it's better to use macro or a UDF. I like UDFs because they're clean and easy to work with.

Glad ya liked it and hope you find the others just as enjoyable. What you are describing sounds very cool but I have eschewed fancy-shmancy HTML tricks for fear of falling into performance and stack size traps (which copious use of evalMacro has not impacted, knock on wood). Rumble went too far down the "Stuff-in-as-many-ultra-pretty-HTML-forms-as-we-can" road and I have read the fallout thereof in various posts. Input dialogs work well enough (i.e. simplicity and speed) for my purposes despite the significantly decreased aesthetic value. This is in keeping with my "function over form" philosophy.

BTW, I have implemented main/off-hand alternation prompting for multiple attacks but my ranger never uses it. My framework is programmable so I just wrote him a macro that alternates automatically.

[StarMan]

Yah, I've seen your site, followed your sig in another post. Doesn't sound bad, does it run much like Rumble's or would I have to go about learning a new system?

Also I see you import powers from the online builder, which I don't have access to, and I used to have the old builder with CBLoader but a reformat with the loss of the original install file has killed that. Happen to have a link for the original builder that isn't loaded with virus, or is there another way to add powers without coding knowledge?

IMO it runs nothing like Rumble's (that's intentional!) although it does have most of his campaign properties and uses the same stat sheet display. It can convert Rumble tokens to MPB format but you can also use this feature to create powers. In v2.0 power creation is far simpler than Rumble's so there really is no need to create your tokens there first. Even so, token migration is still supported.

The new import features in 2.0 will happily import from PDFs (assuming they have been properly OCRed) and Compendium with minimal modification of the source text. Yes, for PCs you will need the dnd4e character file to do this. If you don't have access to DDI then I'm afraid you will need to input your stats manually (although powers can still be imported like Rumble does).

As for right now in 1.x, everything must be done manually if you choose not to migrate Rumble tokens. Programming knowledge is not required but still highly recommended, even in 2.0. Look back in this thread and you will see some great work in this regard from other users. Watching my demo videos should answer most of your questions.

[StarMan]

or is there another way to add powers without coding knowledge?

I'm going on a whim with this because I'm not sure if your still relating this question to Starman's framework or Rumbles..however I know its possible to get powers in a pdf format and then use a pdf or bullszip printer to reformat the power to be able to select it for copy paste.I other hand prefer to use the compendium to get the power info since Rumble's import features works 99% percent of the time and makes creating stuff really fast.
I also want to say was up to Starman,its good to know that your still making improvements beyond Rumble's.I had a question for you Starman.Will you be creating a 5e framework once its more set in stone on how there going to be running it,It looks quite stable now for the core but I would be interested to know if you were?

That depends on what you mean by "works". IIRC Rumble makes you answer a whole bunch of questions and then still fails to import beneficial states like attack bonuses and healing for allies, correct? MPB 2.0 will only ask for the input text and present one completed form for the main power and individual ones for each condition (ally healing included!). I would like to eventually get these to act like confirmation screens only but for now you can make corrections wherever the importer screws up. Support for all states as well as leader powers will be included with the import facilities.

Glad you appreciate my work but unfortunately my group has no plans to switch to 5e any time soon. I also say a few words on the subject at the bottom of this page. Having said that, the code from the 4e MPB is designed to be very modular and portable so I may give it a shot some day ... but don't hold your breath!

[StarMan]

BTW, my framework will be able to handle this scenario when I release v2.0 next month (or maybe Nov). Go here and read point 5. In your case, you will be able to attach the cleric's "Astral Seal Healing" power to each party member's "Hit" event. IOW, every time a player "hits" he will automatically run the healing macro on himself.

Two things:

1) yeah for the new release!!!
2) based upon your wording of the last sentence, does it work as the power is written? It's supposed to give "healing" to next ally that hits it, not all. How do you handle removing from each player once one person has "triggered" the "hit event"? and for that matter ,what defines "hit"(do damage, to hit roll, etc?)

Glad somebody else besides my group is excited by 2.0's imminent arrival! Except for monster importing, everything is working extremely well in our sessions so I am on track for beta release by year's end. Converting monsters from text form to usable tokens is proving to be a VERY tough nut to crack so I take my hat off to Rumble and Blakey for taking that minotaur by the horns, as it were.

{Heavy sigh} In your few posts to me you have proven your adeptness at finding the chinks in my armor. You are correct. The trigger definition feature does not currently discriminate between individual tokens. You would have to program the functionality you describe, although that should be fairly simple.

Another approach would be to use the new "Send Macro" facility to the player who hit. A "hit" is defined as beating the defense score in question although I could add a "damage" event as well. In our example, you could code the healing macro to prompt the player asking whether he hit the affected creature or not.

Lastly, I could draw upon the great work done by fhscoll. He has devised a way to implement conditional bonuses that are contingent upon the token using them. Delve further back in this thread for his MPB camapaign file and specific examples. Sadly, I have just been too busy to look at his code but will try to do so soon.

[jfrazierjr]

Glad somebody else besides my group is excited by 2.0's imminent arrival! Except for monster importing, everything is working extremely well in our sessions so I am on track for beta release by year's end.

Well.. I have YET to actually use your framework(I was originally using Rumble's Slim and just have not had time and energy to convert as of yet). I play in a Face to Face group where pretty much everyone want's to roll their own dice, but me as the DM just want to automate as much as possible.

{Heavy sigh} In your few posts to me you have proven your adeptness at finding the chinks in my armor.

Glad to be an annoyance!!(I mean this in jest of course...) That's one of the bad things about D&D 4E is that there ARE so many exceptions/exception types.

You are correct. The trigger definition feature does not currently discriminate between individual tokens. You would have to program the functionality you describe, although that should be fairly simple.

Another approach would be to use the new "Send Macro" facility to the player who hit. A "hit" is defined as beating the defense score in question although I could add a "damage" event as well. In our example, you could code the healing macro to prompt the player asking whether he hit the affected creature or not.

Lastly, I could draw upon the great work done by fhscoll. He has devised a way to implement conditional bonuses that are contingent upon the token using them. Delve further back in this thread for his MPB camapaign file and specific examples. Sadly, I have just been too busy to look at his code but will try to do so soon.

I am sure we can eventually figure this out. I know it's something that I will run into and will want some type of solution(either built in or something I could program in my limited time) since my party has a cleric that uses this power (Astral Seal) A LOT(like every 2nd or 3rd round).

While we are on the subject of healing, our group has a Warforged and I just gave the cleric a Reperation Apperatus(gives extra healing to any WF creatures). Can you envision an easy way to automate something like that or would it just be up to the cleric's player to add the additional healing manually(additional 2d6 regained HP/temp HP from any powers with the healing keyword that target warforged) Perhaps that's just getting a bit overboard with the automation...

[Dragon]

I have been using Rumble's framework for the past 3 months. I have just discovered MPB and I would like to convert my existing campaigns (I am running 3 campaigns concurrently in the same world) to MPB.

I have a library of monsters that I import into my adventures. Is it possible to convert a monster from Rumble to MPB and then clone said token pair? I would like to be able to duplicate my monsters quickly and efficiently.

[StarMan]

I don't mind exceptions and will happily incorporate them into the MPB as long as they are used regularly. If it makes the game easier and more fun then I'm all for it. However if it's something that's only gonna be used once every ten gaming sessions or so then I'll probably just tell you to do it manually. "Every 2nd or 3rd round" certainly qualifies for something you would want to automate as I too like to program as much as possible.

As I've explained, the trigger definition feature allows you to attach macros to game events such as becoming bloodied, scoring a crit, etc. There are two types of triggers: events and reactions. An event is something you do like hitting a monster, spending a healing surge, etc. A reaction is something that is done to you like getting hit by a monster, being lowered past 0 hp, etc.

Categorizing triggers in this respect can be a little tricky but I think I've got it right. Actually, as you know Rumble lets you define triggers for hits, misses and all times at the individual power level. This is the same concept but I have implemented it at a global level for about a dozen events, not just 3.

Fortunately this is a pretty easy problem to solve in v2.0 without resorting to programming. All you have to do is define a "Hit" reaction trigger on the affected monster to point to the cleric's Astral Seal macro. During game play, the trigger-handling subsystem will sit and watch as you conduct combat. As soon as it sees the monster get hit, it will look up that token's string property list to find the macro associated with the "Hit" reaction. It will then "send" that macro to the triggering token, healing it in the process. I would do this by writing a macro that updates the string property list on the monster but doing so through the menus at the time of casting is fine too.

Yes, I realize this sounds a little silly. Effectively the monster is saying, "Hey PC, you just hit me so as a reward I'm gonna heal you!" but mechanically everything works out as expected. BTW, the MPB lets you roll your own dice or take the MT-generated value. This is true for all die rolls at all times so no special configuration needs to be done.

[StarMan]

I have been using Rumble's framework for the past 3 months. I have just discovered MPB and I would like to convert my existing campaigns (I am running 3 campaigns concurrently in the same world) to MPB.

I have a library of monsters that I import into my adventures. Is it possible to convert a monster from Rumble to MPB and then clone said token pair? I would like to be able to duplicate my monsters quickly and efficiently.

Good question Dragon as I believe I stopped my RACK Demo video before mentioning this. Yes, this is documented in the very last line of this page. You only need one Lib token (one with the red box around it) for any given monster type. After creating and perfecting all its powers, make as many copies of the player token as you like. If a power doesn't work properly then you need only edit it on the Lib token and all monsters attached to it will work correctly.

[Dragon]

Thanks for answering my question. I really like the implementation for duplicating monsters. Very slick.

I am working my way through the documentation and running tests in MPB. I am sure I will have a list of questions for you once I am done making sure you haven't already answered them.

My gamers are pushing for a FAST transition. I keep telling them I need to learn everything and convert before we can play. Lag has been rough...

[Slayve2DnD]

So, how are damage and states/conditions done in your framework? Are they automatically applied like in Rumble's? Can u import powers to your tokens the same way as Rumble's (after having set up the token and converting it)?

[irfus]

So, how are damage and states/conditions done in your framework? Are they automatically applied like in Rumble's? Can u import powers to your tokens the same way as Rumble's (after having set up the token and converting it)?

Damage and states are handled automatically. Powers can be coded manually, but cannot be imported in without going through Rumble's fw and the RACK process all over again. I believe this is going to change in v2.

1) yeah for the new release!!!

Man, can't wait for it! Glad to know progress is happening.

[StarMan]

Glad to hear you're still having fun with it, irfus!

I keep telling them I need to learn everything and convert before we can play. Lag has been rough...

Dragon, don't try to learn "everything" as you will drive yourself (and your players) crazy in short order. Even so, it's good to hear your players are enthusiastic about the switch. Try slowly going through the steps in the RACK Demo and Combat Demo videos. Then run this sample encounter with your group and try to get comfortable with the MPB way of doing things. As you learn more and more about the framework, try branching out to its more esoteric functions. Slayve, this goes for you too as many of your questions will get answered this way.

What do you mean about "lag being rough"? Rumble is known for his lag but there are things you can do to alleviate it. These include turning off vision, using smaller JPEG images on your tokens, not using his feat reference feature and having only one player running macros at any given time.

Thanks for answering my question. I really like the implementation for duplicating monsters. Very slick.

It just got slicker. Yesterday I finished work on a brand new feature that makes duplicating monsters a snap. It is the final point (#17) here. Furthermore, you will now be able to create all your characters and monsters without ever leaving the MPB campaign file. This is because Rumble has been dropped as the main import engine although conversion from his fw is still supported.

As irfus says, this is the main focus of 2.0 even though I only started working on it early last month. This is a sigh of relief for those of us fed up with updating our Rumble token every level, pasting into the MPB and then running the RACK to import the new stats and powers from it.

Generally speaking, I am recommending all new MPBers play sample encounters in v1.2 to get their feet wet. When 2.0 is released then by all means start converting your Rumble campaigns (or start from the MPB directly as recommended) and play "live".