4E PHB to be $5 ???
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4E PHB to be $5 ???
Caught this on Twitter:
"Latest news: 4e phb will be $5 @ #GenCon equals desperation or 4.5 coming soon. Christ. #dnd"
Can anyone verify that? Were they waiting for Paizo to release and watch the sales numbers?
"Latest news: 4e phb will be $5 @ #GenCon equals desperation or 4.5 coming soon. Christ. #dnd"
Can anyone verify that? Were they waiting for Paizo to release and watch the sales numbers?
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
It's five bucks if you buy another D&D rulebook. That's not desperation, that's marketing.
You can get any D&D rulebook for free if you win the Ultimate Delve, but nobody said that was a desperation move. This is smarter, in that it'll put the PHB in the hands of people who may not currently play.
You can get any D&D rulebook for free if you win the Ultimate Delve, but nobody said that was a desperation move. This is smarter, in that it'll put the PHB in the hands of people who may not currently play.
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
And being that it's at GenCon, you can guess these are the most likely people to buy more books or run games for folks back at home. I think it's a smart move... if I were there I'd stock up =)
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
I guess that makes sense but they DID have the Core rules boxset that was reasonably priced (it wasn't that expensive compared to buying each book seperately).
Most people will probably go the DMG and PHB route; with the first MM as an extra.
Will see how many MORE people pick up the game after this year's biggest Con.
Most people will probably go the DMG and PHB route; with the first MM as an extra.
Will see how many MORE people pick up the game after this year's biggest Con.
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Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
No not desperate, but maybe paying a little attention...
They've noticed there's a large group out there that won't pay the abhorrent prices, and with the phb having already made its run... its the one they can afford to sell at cost (or a little under) provided you buy something else.
They've given up on making money of the phb, but because is necessary to the game, practically giving it away gets the attention of people that were on the edge... I don't think it'll get the attention of people who were already stepping away from WOTC stuff.
They've noticed there's a large group out there that won't pay the abhorrent prices, and with the phb having already made its run... its the one they can afford to sell at cost (or a little under) provided you buy something else.
They've given up on making money of the phb, but because is necessary to the game, practically giving it away gets the attention of people that were on the edge... I don't think it'll get the attention of people who were already stepping away from WOTC stuff.
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Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
Of course the Pathfinder release would have something to do with it.
But with all the hardcovers they've got out right now, why not give away the "gateway" book for cost? And given that most people can get the books for 30% to 40% off cover, I'm betting that the $5 deal is "Pay for 1 book full Retail, and get the PHB for $5."
If that's the case, the discount would really not be all that significant:
$35 DMG ($23 @ Amazon)
$35 PHB ($23 @ Amazon)
-------------------------------
$70 Retail or $46 @ Amazon.
Buy them at the show: $35 for the DMG and $5 for the PHB.
Save $6 over Amazon.
Come home and buy the Monster manual for $23... for a total of $63... making for a total savings of $3 over what you can get all three for at Amazon right now. A 5% savings overall for the big 3.
So, like all good marketing, it sounds better than it probably is.
But with all the hardcovers they've got out right now, why not give away the "gateway" book for cost? And given that most people can get the books for 30% to 40% off cover, I'm betting that the $5 deal is "Pay for 1 book full Retail, and get the PHB for $5."
If that's the case, the discount would really not be all that significant:
$35 DMG ($23 @ Amazon)
$35 PHB ($23 @ Amazon)
-------------------------------
$70 Retail or $46 @ Amazon.
Buy them at the show: $35 for the DMG and $5 for the PHB.
Save $6 over Amazon.
Come home and buy the Monster manual for $23... for a total of $63... making for a total savings of $3 over what you can get all three for at Amazon right now. A 5% savings overall for the big 3.
So, like all good marketing, it sounds better than it probably is.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
Confirmed.Full Bleed wrote:I'm betting that the $5 deal is "Pay for 1 book full Retail, and get the PHB for $5."
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rp ... encon.html
I fail to see how it's exciting.
I also fail to see that it is definitively connected to Pathfinder, let alone the ridiculous 4.5 rumours.
Lets see... a Loss Leader is a long standing and well known sales tactic to get people in the door, so to speak. Nothing unusual there.
GenCon is THE industry convention, and will have the highest exposure to RPG fans.
It's the perfect marketing environment.
Finally, the more PHBs you have out there, the more supplements you will sell, thanks to a broader player base. Simple marketing wisdom here.
All in all, it appears to be a big marketing stunt, and not one that will even cost them much of anything. Even if the cover price is $35, they're only actually earning like $8 on each retail sale, after the retailer and distributor take their cuts.
Actual cost of the book is probably $5, as people have been assuming.
Which means every copy they personally sell at full retail price is $30 in profits, having cut out the middle men.
So, a $35 book at cost + a $35 book at retail = $0 + $30 = $30 profit on 2 books.
Versus the $5-10 they would make off of retail sales of both books.
And they'll sell more books this way than they would without the sale. TONS more.
You can't even call it a loss leader at that point. They'll be making buckets of money.
There's no reason to assume this is because of Pathfinder.
Seems like a sound sales strategy to me, taken on it's own.
Mind you, Savage Worlds "Everything you need is only $10" sales strategy is unbeatable.
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
That one sold me.palmer wrote: Mind you, Savage Worlds "Everything you need is only $10" sales strategy is unbeatable.
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Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
I agree that 4.5 speculation is ridiculous. I don't have much respect for WotC's business decisions lately, but that would be suicide.palmer wrote:I also fail to see that it is definitively connected to Pathfinder, let alone the ridiculous 4.5 rumours.
However, Pathfinder can't be ignored as a factor in pressing WotC to be more aggressive in it's marketing than they otherwise would have been. If their people aren't looking for ways to take some steam out of Pathfinder's presence and buzz at the con, then they aren't doing their jobs.
Is this $5 thing enough? I doubt it. But, hey, people are talking about it.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
Yay competition being great for the consumer!
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
Your first hit is free...
How am I going to stop some big mean mother hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind?
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
I'm absolutely sure that PF played some part in the marketing strategy, because it is a huge deal. I just don't see it being THE reason.Full Bleed wrote:However, Pathfinder can't be ignored as a factor in pressing WotC to be more aggressive in it's marketing than they otherwise would have been. If their people aren't looking for ways to take some steam out of Pathfinder's presence and buzz at the con, then they aren't doing their jobs.
Is this $5 thing enough? I doubt it. But, hey, people are talking about it.
This kind of promotion, I see it as sort of a natural kind of thing. They likely would have done this, or something very similar, even if PF wasn't due out for another 6 months. Although then it may have been $10 instead of $5, or something.
PF may be the new contender, coming out of the corner of the ring, fists swinging... but D&D is still the 600 pound gorilla, and can shrug off those welterweight punches.
There's likely truth to the concept of moving old stock as well. 4E's been out for some time now, and the majority of those who want the PHB have it already. It's the core product, but sales are probably way down.
The 3rd Ed PHB stayed relatively evergreen because of the OGL - it was a fairly central product for a lot of games beyond D&D. The GSL... not so hot. Which is a pity, because I'd love to do some genre stuff with the core 4E powers setup.
It's safe to say that pretty much everyone at GenCon already knows 4E and doesn't need to be "lured in". There isn't much audience to build there. Even the haters still know it beforehand, and don't need a teaser.
Like it or hate it, pretty much everyone already knows it.
The major demographic that will be taking advantage of this deal?
Casual to moderate pre-existing players.
These are the people who don't have their own books. They are going to buy the relevant Class Power book for their preferred class, and get a PHB so they have one of their own for reference during game, rather than relying on the one communal copy.
DMs will already have it. Some may want it for a "player copy" while they keep a PHB for their own reference, but this isn't a large chunk.
Actual new players?
Not a whole lot. They aren't directly marketing this at new players. If they were, it would be some kind of Corer Rules Package (PHB, DMG, MM) at a stupid discount, like $60 for the three, which is like buy 2 get one free - still an incredible deal.
Perhaps what they're hoping for is... experienced DMs buying extra PHBs to give out as gifts, and get new players.
Honestly, were I at GenCon, that's exactly what I would be doing. Buying the books I was getting anyways, and getting PHBs as gifts for my players.
If nothing else, it does have tongues wagging and has drummed up interest, which is always a good thing for marketing. But it's also drummed up more interest for PF, because of the supposed connection people are seeing.
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Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
We'll see. This time next year we'll have a clearer picture of just what kind of bite PF has taken out of D&D. I believe it's going to substantial enough for the suits at Hasbro to take notice... and I'm going to be very interested to see how they handle it. They've made some pretty serious decisions over the last year geared toward increasing profitability and cutting investment/costs. They've got to be expecting results. And if they don't get them, last years moves will likely be dwarfed by what they do next.palmer wrote:PF may be the new contender, coming out of the corner of the ring, fists swinging... but D&D is still the 600 pound gorilla, and can shrug off those welterweight punches.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
Heh. I'll make a serious for real bet -- donation to the charity of the winner's choice, say? -- that the core Pathfinder book will not be on the Amazon top ten best seller list for games on November 15th, 2009. I think it's selling well, and Paizo has a hit on their hands, but I also think the definition of a hit is very different for WotC than it is for anyone else.Full Bleed wrote:We'll see. This time next year we'll have a clearer picture of just what kind of bite PF has taken out of D&D. I believe it's going to substantial enough for the suits at Hasbro to take notice... and I'm going to be very interested to see how they handle it. They've made some pretty serious decisions over the last year geared toward increasing profitability and cutting investment/costs. They've got to be expecting results. And if they don't get them, last years moves will likely be dwarfed by what they do next.palmer wrote:PF may be the new contender, coming out of the corner of the ring, fists swinging... but D&D is still the 600 pound gorilla, and can shrug off those welterweight punches.
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Re: 4E PHB to be $5 ???
You pick the 15th because WotC has some new product landing then?Thanlis wrote:Heh. I'll make a serious for real bet -- donation to the charity of the winner's choice, say? -- that the core Pathfinder book will not be on the Amazon top ten best seller list for games on November 15th, 2009. I think it's selling well, and Paizo has a hit on their hands, but I also think the definition of a hit is very different for WotC than it is for anyone else.
Even if not... I agree. I doubt the Pathfinder core book will hold the top spot for 1 month, let alone 3. D&D is a bulldozer. And with 4e's year and a half of momentum and deep product pipeline nothing is going to knock it off the rails.
But that still doesn't mean PF isn't going to take a bigger bite out of D&D than Hasbro anticipated. Even a 5% decline in projected sales will demand some kind of response. They can't just sit idly by and watch market share be taken.
So, again, lets see if PF has legs. Lets see how similar products released near one another perform a year from now. And lets see if Hasbro can continue to "react" by offering 5% discounts and cutting investment (Gleemax, employees, PDF's, Gametable, Miniature's Game, Etc.)
WotC has shunned PDF's. Paizo has embraced them. There are some very divergent marketing strategies at works here and I'm dying to see which ends up bearing more fruit.
PS: I'm more interested in December 15th. I want to know what kids are going to be asking for at Christmas, 4 months from now... especially those kids that got 4e last year. Can PF hold a spot in the top 5 then?
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