BioWare: Money-Hungry Scum

[AcidMinded]

This: Dragon Age P&P RPG

What the hell. I'm okay with the whole aspect of an RPG designed around the Dragon Age world, I love the games. However, read closely. 30$ for each of the 4 sets of books. That's 120$. Each set only covers FIVE levels of play. Meaning you get the information for levelling your character from 1-5 in the first set and if you ever even think of playing more than those levels, you've got to throw down more cash for it!

I find this ridiculous and it kind of pisses me off. It's not fair that you're requiring players to spend 120$ to get every supplement and piece of crappy filler you can think up just to play a full 20 levels. No system does this because they realize that it's asking way too much from the players. They really need to rethink this, as it's going to cause a huge loss for them.

Gimme your thoughts. Are you excited to try it out? Are you pissed about the price tag? Do you think I should shut up?
Speak.

[aliasmask]

Sound like any other module at levels your characters. I guess putting it in a box with more resources could justify the cost, but that is definitely at the top end of what I may want to pay. Most gaming stores will give you 20% off for regular customers, if not, your going to the wrong gaming store.

[plothos]

In general, I don't think a company has a responsibility to price their products at a certain level (monopoly and other extenuating circumstances aside). But I won't be buying that, you can be darn sure. I view WotC in much the same light. Charge what you want, and I'll see ya later, because what you're offering ain't worth it any more.

If the rest of the populace is willing to support such a price tag, alrighty then. I don't have an inalienable right to the product at the price I deem fit. But I would hope people are smarter than to let such price points continue. Withhold your money when companies do this and companies will stop doing this.

If people don't, I blame them more than I blame the company for any harm done to me.

That said, that's one of the most ridiculous money grubbing I've seen in a while. They're clearly banking on the popularity and hype behind the video games to blind people. I wouldn't touch that crud with a 10 foot rod of lordly might. I hope nobody else does.

[AcidMinded]

In general, I don't think a company has a responsibility to price their products at a certain level (monopoly and other extenuating circumstances aside). But I won't be buying that, you can be darn sure. I view WotC in much the same light. Charge what you want, and I'll see ya later, because what you're offering ain't worth it any more.

If the rest of the populace is willing to support such a price tag, alrighty then. I don't have an inalienable right to the product at the price I deem fit. But I would hope people are smarter than to let such price points continue. Withhold your money when companies do this and companies will stop doing this.

If people don't, I blame them more than I blame the company for any harm done to me.

That said, that's one of the most ridiculous money grubbing I've seen in a while. They're clearly banking on the popularity and hype behind the video games to blind people. I wouldn't touch that crud with a 10 foot rod of lordly might. I hope nobody else does.

I love you.
This is exactly what I've been thinking since I saw the crap! And I dunno if anyone here has Origins and got the new DLC, but it literally took me 10 minutes to beat. Total waste of money :C

[plothos]

Yeah, I got Origins and it's worth the money. Not touching the DLC, though.

[AcidMinded]

The only thing that DLC is good for is getting Cailan and Duncan's weapons/armor. And those items are so ridiculously awesome. But still. Not worth the money.

[Rumble]

This: Dragon Age P&P RPG

What the hell. I'm okay with the whole aspect of an RPG designed around the Dragon Age world, I love the games. However, read closely. 30$ for each of the 4 sets of books. That's 120$. Each set only covers FIVE levels of play. Meaning you get the information for levelling your character from 1-5 in the first set and if you ever even think of playing more than those levels, you've got to throw down more cash for it!

I find this ridiculous and it kind of pisses me off. It's not fair that you're requiring players to spend 120$ to get every supplement and piece of crappy filler you can think up just to play a full 20 levels. No system does this because they realize that it's asking way too much from the players. They really need to rethink this, as it's going to cause a huge loss for them.

Gimme your thoughts. Are you excited to try it out? Are you pissed about the price tag? Do you think I should shut up?
Speak.

Bought the first set on PDF. We play using MapTool; the game - although quite lightweight - is nonetheless slick, fast, and fun. I like it better than most other games I've played. In fact, better than almost all of them.

I'm irritated by the fact that they didn't release it in 10-level increments; or release the whole thing in PDF, and the chunked up part in box sets (so if you just want the game, buy the PDF; if you want the maps and the nice-looking books, buy the box sets). Of course, since the system is laid out in the first set, and what is likely to happen as you level up is pretty clear, you don't need the rest of the books. Anyway, my irritation hardly amounts to "money-hungry scum." Especially since it's Green Ronin who publishes the game.

Now, if you consider yourself an "experienced gamer," this will probably not contain the information payload you're looking for. Thus, I recommend getting it only if you don't have something else to blow $17 on.

So, for me, it does not reach my outrage threshold.

[AcidMinded]

Nice to see an opposing opinion. You make it sound fun

[Rumble]

Nice to see an opposing opinion. You make it sound fun

It is fun. Now, it may not actually be worth the total of all the box sets - everyone's going to put their own value on it - and I don't plan to buy any of the actual box sets (rather, I'll buy the PDFs - the first set is running $17.50 at DTRPG, if I remember rightly, and I've spent more on stuff I've never played, stuff I ended up hating), but the game itself? A hoot. Feels old-school; very VERY easy to run; rewarding to the players.

I even like the random character generation.

[Full Bleed]

At the end of the day you vote with your dollar.

Personally, I wouldn't support that model as I would be quite turned off if the games I did play tried to follow it.

[Natha]

On the contrary, the whole "box sets / simple but fun & fast game / everything to play included / periodical rythm" is appealing to me. And it seems to be a good tool for beginners/newbies.

With other "big" RPGs you can spend easily that much in different core rules books, supplement rules books, setting rule books and adventures ...

The only difference is : you don't buy the whole collection "horizontally" with Dragon Age but "vertically" (campaign evolution wise).

Of course, in most RPGs collection, you can just buy the one or two book and create the rest yourself. But not everyone has this kind of imagination and/or time.

[Full Bleed]

On the contrary, the whole "box sets / simple but fun & fast game / everything to play included / periodical rythm" is appealing to me.

Sounds like "everything to play to level 5" is included. That sounds suspiciously like 1/4th of a game to me.

[neofax]

On the contrary, the whole "box sets / simple but fun & fast game / everything to play included / periodical rythm" is appealing to me.

Sounds like "everything to play to level 5" is included. That sounds suspiciously like 1/4th of a game to me.

So, when older D&D games came out with Demigod and other means to advance your character past a certain level, they were 1/2 games? Just like in other games, you don't need the other levels to make a game. Just the basic rules and imagination. I received Dragon Age as a gift and have not had the chance to read nor play yet. However, if I do not enjoy the game, I will not look at it as a wasted investment (even though I did not pay for it, I will have invested time in reading the rules). I will use it like all other forms of stimuli to enrich the games I do enjoy.

[plothos]

Depends very much on what levels 1-5 get you, does it not? If it's anything like the D&D structure, the upper limit before reaching something nigh-supernatural is 20, so levels 1-5 will not take you very far into a campaign unless you severely retard character advancement, which for many people will appear stagnant. If that's the way DA is designed, then these initial releases are "complete", but the game doesn't involve much character growth (power wise). Since this seems unlikely, the assumption (and a fair one, I think) is that levels 1-5 represent just the beginning of a character's advancement. IF that is so, then I would say there's a big difference between what Bioware is doing and was WotC did releasing 1-20 and "withholding" more epic content (many rules for which were in fact also included in the DMG for 3.5, say).

At any rate, the suspicion is that this is standard junkie-exploitation procedure. Give them a taste and keep them coming back for more. Rather than design a complete game and release the complete core, they design the core and release a fragment of it. Why would they do such a thing? Because they hope to make more money out of it, of course.

No one is saying the product is not going to be good, nor that it can't be used to inspire other things. They're saying that the company, rather than trying to make money by providing a solid product and build customer loyalty, they are hoping their product is solid enough that they can take them for as much as possible before the bloom is off the rose. Of course levels 1-5 will offer SOMETHING of value. They want to get you hooked so you come back for levels 6-30 or whatever, probably in 5 level packets. At least, I think this is the suspicion.

Again, I feel Bioware has every right to charge whatever they heck they want for their products. But there is a question of the amount of value in the product versus the amount of money they're demanding. If WotC had released only rules for levels 1-5 for 3.5 or 4E, while charging these amounts, it would have been ridiculous. You could have a "complete" game limiting yourself to those levels, of course. But your characters wouldn't change much over the course of the campaign. And if WotC had the more complete package all set and released it in segments to get more money out of it, they absolutely would have had the right to do it. But would it have been a good deal for the players? Heck no. And I imagine the only reason WotC did not do what Bioware appears to be doing is they realized their customers would not have put up with it.

[Daelkyr]

And I would like to point out that the title of this thread is currently inaccurate.

As is clearly explained in forum posts, blog entries, and podcasts found at http://greenronin.com/dragon_age/, the Pen and Pencil Dragon Age: Dark Fantasy Roleplaying currently being discussed, is NOT actually published by Bioware, but has been licensed to Green Ronin, publisher of award winning roleplaying games, card games, and more since 2000. Bioware actually contacted Chris Pramis (owner of Green Ronin) to make a tabletop game for the property. It was Green Ronin, makers of Freeport, Mutants & Masterminds, True20, and A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying who decided this tiered, Basic, Expert, Companion, Master-esqe release schedule for the game they have created.

So, while points made on both sides are currently valid, the target of scorn or praise is misdirected.

As an aside, I thought that this thread was going to be a tongue-in-cheek praise of Bioware's newest release Mass Effect 2, coming so soon after the smash hit, Dragon Age: Origins. The former is fantastic. My life is currently being owned by the former. If only sleep were optional.

- Josh

And as a tangent, I actually made a framework for the Dragon Age RPG:

Dragon Age: RPG Framework [STABLE v1.1]