Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

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Veggiesama
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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by Veggiesama »

MOTE BETA BUILD #11 wrote:The new chat interface prompted us to change how things are done with regard to the chat interface. First, the old message panel is now reserved for macro output and application generated messages. ... Secondly, this change effectively separates actual conversations from program output, lessening visual clutter.


Oh man, I've been wanting this for years.

Though it's not clear how it interacts with the impersonation system. I've always wanted a separate channel for impersonated conversation and description to go to (IC) and another channel for die-rolls, player chatter, and miscellaneous messages (OOC). I'm not sure using IRC, with a limited nickname selection and lack of HTML formatting, will accomplish that.
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booga
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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by booga »

Veggiesama wrote:
MOTE BETA BUILD #11 wrote:The new chat interface prompted us to change how things are done with regard to the chat interface. First, the old message panel is now reserved for macro output and application generated messages. ... Secondly, this change effectively separates actual conversations from program output, lessening visual clutter.


Oh man, I've been wanting this for years.

Though it's not clear how it interacts with the impersonation system. I've always wanted a separate channel for impersonated conversation and description to go to (IC) and another channel for die-rolls, player chatter, and miscellaneous messages (OOC). I'm not sure using IRC, with a limited nickname selection and lack of HTML formatting, will accomplish that.


So far features are very limited. Here is my analysis, based on testing this morning:

PROs

-- less clutter in the chat (theorically, see CONs), only macro output is going through chat
-- separate channels via IRC: if you select a token and hit enter, a new IRC channel opens as a tab with the owner of the token, so you can "whisper" back and forth with that player fairly easily. Pretty neat if you want individual chats (one for each player). Being connected on my own, I couldn't test if you could select several tokens and open a channel including all the players owning these tokens (quick multi-whisper method I guess). That would need to be tested live, but is promising.

CONs

-- The input box in the chat panel is GONE. You cannot send text there manually if you want to. That's a bummer imo.
-- The IRC panel and the hat panel share the same space and you cannot see both at the same time, so you have to toggle with a button between the two depending if you want to chat with players or see what's in the chat. It would be nice to have both of them on different panels, so you can have them side by side if you want to. Same for individual IRC channels, going from tab to tab could be cumbersome for some GMs.
-- The input field for the IRC panel is floating and sometimes hard to recover (it likes to play hide an seek). it canot be docked or resized, and is generally on top of something else.
-- The input field for the IRC panel also has NO color option, no scrolling toggle, and does not show if you are impersonating a token (so currently, as of beta 11, there is no way to know if you are impersonating a token, and I'm not sure impersonating a token actually works anymore.
-- When displayed, the IRC channel inputs appear in bubbles,with the name of the alias next to it and the date. I prefer the old Maptool formatting in the chat, but that's me.
-- Currently, IRC dialogs (when someone connects/disconnects, etc... from irc.darmyst.org all goes to the "old" chat window, which kinda defeats the purpose of removing the clutter (the info displayed has nothing to do with my game).

Here is a screenshot of the new IRC chat, with the input field on the right:
Image

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by femanon »

the new chatbar changes are not something I will like then. while categorizing flow is important feature to some, the very idea of turning what was one window into a complicated mess is unappealing, particularly since the IRC functionality is very tacked on and seems to provide nothing considering how accessable IRC is to anyone who knows what they are doing, and anyone who didn't would have fairly little incentive to make use of the archaeic system.

My suggestion is to chuck the feature and focus on making the chat bar experiance usable, Pretty much all the changes seem fine except the floating chatbox seperating from the chat window itself. And make the option to have one window possible. its one thing to have a check box to filter this or that kind of content, but preventing messages and forcing users to click back and forth is not desirable as an outcome. This is honestly something that will break mote for me if it is not changed.

Most if not all of the groups I'm aware of would also feel similarly, and thats looking at a good 50 people. Our groups use macros , some to a lesser or greater extent. and weave the roleplay and interesting mechanics into them. with flavor text, prayers, and all kinds of nifty stuff.

Remember you are making a system for a virtual table top. the goal there is to provide robust and accessible OPTIONS. if you cram things like this down the throat of the user, you will inevitably run into problems because very few two groups do everything exactly the same. This is probably, in my mind the biggest failing of every table top environment, from CRPG stuff like NWN1-2, to roll20, to maptools and fantasy grounds. there are some things in all of these programs that are just not ever allowed to be changed. Map-tools is the best because it by far is the most flexible of these things

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Dervish
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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by Dervish »

I can not say that i am really a fan of the irc chat the rest of the ui i like but the chat interfaces is a real turn off for me now

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by booga »

I agree with you both, but remember it's the first implementation of IRC in Mote, and it's bound to evolve, based on our feeback. If you were backers in the KS, make sure to go to snowy evening (it's their bug trackign system) and report problems, or provide feeback.

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by FerretDave »

I don't even use the chat system at - I use maptool (and will use mote) Just for the map on a big screen in front of my players in one room. IF we have a remote player, we use Skype.

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by Irrlicht »

As someone who just discovered Mote these days and who has no experience of Gogle+ and finds it very confusing, I have two questions:
1) Beyond noticing that Mote is an acronym (M:O.T.E., exactly), I couldn't find what it actually stands for. Anybody knows and can tell?
2) Is there a messageboard or something for it, or only Google+?
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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by Full Bleed »

Irrlicht wrote:2) Is there a messageboard or something for it, or only Google+?

In Wolph's message it says:

With the majority of early release backers now involved in the beta testing process, we've put up a temporary forum on Weebly for people to use. It's format is simple, so please forgive the lack of PHPBB-like features. It should do, for now.

But there are no links in his message.

I received messages on earlier updates VIA email as a KS backer... but not this time for some reason.

*shrug*


As for having IRC in Mote, I'm not all that excited about it and I hope it's a feature we can disable and default to "classic" chat use. Unless the experience is hands-down better than using MT's current chat window (and it doesn't sound like it is given this first implementation) I'll have no use for it. I know I don't need more windows in MT, especially ones that "get lost" or can't be tabbed or docked for top view. Heck, I don't even like the idea of being connected to another server like that. One of the things I like about MT is that I'm running my own server and don't need outside services to function.

I also have to wonder if there is some better IRC program out there with an API that could have just been implemented in MT. Why reinvent the wheel?
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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by RedDog »

I would be very surprised if the IRC example as presented above will be the end product. There are so many frameworks that use highly formatted output to the chat window that I do not see how Lee (and the other devs) would not have an option for it on the roadmap.

PS: I am glad that we have heard from the Mote group about the project...but I also really wish Lee the best and hope that he is able to overcome whatever personal difficulties he is going through.
Last edited by RedDog on Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by JamzTheMan »

Good to hear from them! Hopefully the IRC stuff will not change any functionality for people eg. GM's can still "chat" with players as NPC's or impersonate PC's in game via normal or macro commands.

Although I don't use chat for really anything other than a few macro outputs, I would assume/hope IRC is only improvements and not changing of any existing functionality...
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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by femanon »

RedDog wrote:I would be very surprised if the IRC example as presented above will be the end product. There are so many frameworks that use highly formatted output to the chat window that I do not see how Lee (and the other devs) would not have an option for it on the roadmap.

sometimes people change things because they think it's better, and given maptools never had the option in the first place, theres little reason not to worry the presumption will be no one wants any of it that way, and that the formating options was a clunky solution to a integrated problem, instead of something people want available.

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by Irrlicht »

Is Mote still in closed beta? I find news very confusing, especially since they're scattered over at least three different sites (Google, a blog, and nother one).
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booga
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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by booga »

Yes it is still in closed beta, although I believe they are getting very close to switching to open beta. Compatibility with MTscript code has improved greatly.

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by smaudet2 »

So, um.

Does this mean RPTools is deprecated?

I mean it still works for me, I just launched a new instance on a brand new server of mine...

More importantly is MOTE open source?

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Re: Mote Kickstarter: We are going LIVE!

Post by aliasmask »

smaudet2 wrote:So, um.

Does this mean RPTools is deprecated?

I mean it still works for me, I just launched a new instance on a brand new server of mine...

More importantly is MOTE open source?

MapTool 1.3 is done. The next version will be 1.4 which is has had a lot of work already done on it. There's a "experimental" version posted somewhere with directions on how to view some of the newer features. MOTE had some delays but will be released as soon as tomorrow. But don't hold your breath. Just wait until it's out before getting excited. It's done but they are just doing to some cross promotional stuff I heard before releasing to the public. The macroscript should be compatible and will look mostly like MapTool but have additional features. The engine is what had the major overhaul. I expect some fancier stuff will come out with another kickstarter once this version gains enough interest. I don't think MOTE is opensource to all, but I believe those in the close beta have access.

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