American politics

Talk about whatever topic you'd like, RPG related or not. (But please discuss things related to our software in the Tools section, below.)

Moderators: dorpond, trevor, Azhrei

Post Reply
User avatar
BigO
Dragon
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:23 pm
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Contact:

American politics

Post by BigO »

American politics. Discuss.

(and pardon me while I hide behind this table to get a cover bonus against the inevitable projectiles)
Last edited by BigO on Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--O

I am a small and fragile flower.
http://maptool.rocks.andyousuck.com

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: MD
Contact:

Post by Full Bleed »

You might want to start an abortion, religion, stem-cell, immigration policy, and off-shore/ANWR drilling thread too.

User avatar
Dracorat
Dragon
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:53 pm

Post by Dracorat »

Well, I'll make *one* post and I'll try to be as respectful as I can be.

After this one post, I won't follow up as I don't want to rehash some forums I've been on - this community is too good for that.

I believe in Obama, believe in his message and in who he is. He has my vote.

I do not buy in to most of the bashing that has gone his way.

I do truly believe we would be better off under him and so I am going to vote that way.

Being from Arizona, I have extra experience with "the maverick" and how destructive he can be. I don't want to sit here and bash him, but I will say that I researched my choices.

I am making my choice out of education, not blindness.

And I choose the Senator from Illinois.

--Dracorat, never to post in this thread again.
Peace to all of you.

User avatar
jfrazierjr
Deity
Posts: 5176
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:31 pm

Post by jfrazierjr »

Wow.. what a contentious thread to start..

You might want to start an abortion, religion, stem-cell, immigration policy, and off-shore/ANWR drilling thread too.

  • Abortion: Against it....
  • Illegal Immigrants should not get a free pass. Fine's don't cut it. for one, it's not fair to the thousands of people who did it the right way and had to spend thousands of dollars to be legal that someone else can just hop the fence and just have to pay pittance. Likewise for those taht are working (which is good) but are using stolen or fake id's. Stolen identity is a HUGE pain in the donkey to fix and the darn IRS want's more proof than you just saying "how could I work in CA when I live and work in NY every darn day" to them, you still ow taxes on your unrepored income because your id was stolen. However, I do agree that the policy for immigration needs to be modified to that people can do it the right way for cheaper and faster.

  • Embryonic Stem-cell research: Against both it AND federal funding for it. However, there IS a difference between the two. The political debate is over federal funding for it. There are hundreds of other things that are funded that should not be by the gov'ment that they have no business putting their greedy little hands in. I want more money in my pocket and no loans to other countries that can hose up our economy (more than already)
  • drill now for our oil we have in the ground. period. Price wise, while I don't like it, I have no problem paying for gas at it's current price of 3.50 -4.00 a gallon. Us Americans have been spoiled and Gasoline is one area where inflation has only recently been a factor. Many European countries were paying $4-5 a gallon back in late 99 when our gas got down to 90 cents. We were not crying when the prices when down and other countries got hosed were we? Besides that, wind and solar won't work on cars... Ok, so electric cars. Yea, find me a car that will go more than 40 miles on charge and pure electric. Everyone Imagine having to drive cross country and instead of taking a 5 minute stop to full up your tank, having to "plug in" and stay for the night after only driving 5 hours or so...It would take you 2 weeks to get from one side of the country to the other. Oh yea.. and what about the billion other products created from oil other than gas. I am in no way saying that I don't support alternative fuels, but darnit, you someone says no more oil using case in 10 years, it's going to totally hose the US. I know some people who have had the same vehicle for 10+ years and drive it everyday. Not everyone can afford to drop 25k to go by a new car cause some dumbass politician does not understand economics. Just look at the whole digital TV thing. Congress passed that law 12 years ago, and 1 year to go, they had to extend 2 more years it cause people were not buying the digital TV's cause they cost to darn much.




There... is that enough to tweak anyone's nose?
I save all my Campaign Files to DropBox. Not only can I access a campaign file from pretty much any OS that will run Maptool(Win,OSX, linux), but each file is versioned, so if something goes crazy wild, I can always roll back to a previous version of the same file.

Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: MD
Contact:

Post by Full Bleed »

jfrazierjr wrote: There... is that enough to tweak anyone's nose?


Not mine. I didn't even read the substance of your post because, frankly, I don't care what anyone's position on those issues may be. I don't come here to debate politics with people I don't know.

And, no, I'm not apolitical. I have very strong, well-defined, carefully considered positions on just about every contentious issue in America. And I know how to defend, debate, and present my thoughts coherently.

That said, I'll never do it around here.

User avatar
BigO
Dragon
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:23 pm
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Contact:

Post by BigO »

Full Bleed wrote:
jfrazierjr wrote: There... is that enough to tweak anyone's nose?


Not mine. I didn't even read the substance of your post because, frankly, I don't care what anyone's position on those issues may be. I don't come here to debate politics with people I don't know.

But yet you're still reading and posting in this thread... :wink:

Although I can understand. I still haven't decided if I want to share my own views yet, or not. There was just so much hubbub lately with the DNC convention and then today's announcement of McCain's veep choice that I thought I would start the thread.

On a related note, survey research indicates that a majority of Developers in the US identify themselves as conservatives. Still haven't figured out why that would be.
--O

I am a small and fragile flower.
http://maptool.rocks.andyousuck.com

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: MD
Contact:

Post by Full Bleed »

BigO wrote:But yet you're still reading and posting in this thread... :wink:


Yep. And I am responding with very substantial content, just not "on-topic" content.

In effect, my responses so far are saying, "One of the reasons this forum has been harmonious is because stuff like this has been checked at the door."

There is always spillage when topics like this are "discussed" on forums. And why anyone would want to foster contentious, deeply personal, and non-RPTool related debate around here is beyond me.

So, I'll leave you with this:

Bacon.

User avatar
BigO
Dragon
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:23 pm
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Contact:

Post by BigO »

Full Bleed wrote:There is always spillage when topics like this are "discussed" on forums. And why anyone would want to foster contentious, deeply personal, and non-RPTool related debate around here is beyond me.

That's why I put it in the general discussion section. I personally think that we're adult enough to talk about it. But if it turns out I'm wrong then I guess our newly appointed moderator can remove the thread.
--O

I am a small and fragile flower.
http://maptool.rocks.andyousuck.com

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: MD
Contact:

Post by Full Bleed »

BigO wrote:I personally think that we're adult enough to talk about it.


So, you actually think that a serious discussion with strangers about these issues fosters unity, team-building, and harmony amoung the masses? That even when people "agree to disagree" they walk away from the debate holding hands and singing "Kumbaya"?

Sooner or later, someone will make the discussion personal because these issues do not just exist in a vacuum. They have varying degrees of importance and relevance to people's lives.

Look at the two "serious" on-topic responses we've had so far. The results of which are:

1) Here's my opinion and I don't want to hear what you have to say about it because I'm not posting here again.

2) "Is that enough to tweak someone's nose?"

Do you feel the love?

I know I do. And the thread's just getting started.



Image

User avatar
BigO
Dragon
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:23 pm
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Contact:

Post by BigO »

Full Bleed wrote:So, you actually think that a serious discussion with strangers about these issues fosters unity, team-building, and harmony amoung the masses? That even when people "agree to disagree" they walk away from the debate holding hands and singing "Kumbaya"?

Huh? Team building? Kumbaya? What on earth are you talking about? I never said anything like that.

If you're looking for team building exercises or campfire singing then I would suggest that you start a new thread in the general discussion section for it. If however you'd like to talk about politics then you are in the right thread.

Now, back on topic, I'd like to offer up this opinion. I'm very pleased with McCain's VP choice. No matter who wins, this will be a very historic year. We're either going to have a black man in office, or a female VP and I like that a lot.

The other thing this will do is tone down the rhetoric about "lack of experience". Although I'm not an Obama supporter, I've never cared for the tactic of trying to use his experience as a negative trait. That's actually one of the things that I love about our system, that we CAN elect people who are not long-term politicians. I personally don't feel that being in Washington for a number of years will make you any more or less prepared than it would a state governor, or a farmer, or whoever, when suddenly someone attacks us, or there's an economy crisis, or any of the other things that presidents have to deal with.

So now that McCain has chosen a VP that ALSO has very little experience, I'm hoping that both sides will move on from that point and focus on issues that matter much more to the rest of us.
Last edited by BigO on Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--O

I am a small and fragile flower.
http://maptool.rocks.andyousuck.com

User avatar
Dracorat
Dragon
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:53 pm

Post by Dracorat »

Full Bleed wrote:1) Here's my opinion and I don't want to hear what you have to say about it because I'm not posting here again.


I couldn't let this one go, sorry.

I'm not posting again (except to clear this up) because while I am OK with stating my opinion so people know it, I don't want things to devolve in to a pissing match, which they usually do with these subjects. The best way to manage that, I've found is to not debate, but rather, state your opinion and recognize that other people have theirs, and no one needs to explain themselves to another person.

I welcome people to respond to my post if they feel, but I won't be following up as I don't have a need to be right nor to make anyone else feel like they are wrong. My opinion is stated and for me, that's good enough.

--Dracorat (who really hopes this really is the last post I have to post on this subject)

User avatar
UntoldGlory
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1649
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm

Post by UntoldGlory »

I was tempted to vote for Obama for a time. I do not fit neatly into either republican or democratic views on all issues. Rep on some, Dem on others. Having said that, I wish that Huckabee had gotten the Repub ticket (though I doubt he could have won).

Environmentally, I'm much more democratic. I have been heavily researching alternative power, and am firmly convinced that our dependance on oil (forgiegn or domestic) is outdated and fabricated and exists soley to line the pockets of big oil and the politicians that support them. The technology exists and works well. Depending on how my taxes look this year, I may be able to be getting paid by the power company for my excess energy before next spring.

In that respect, I think I would see more gains under an Obama regime. The country might even do better financially, though if his plans fail then we could be in for quite a bumpy ride, compared even to where we are now.

However, I cannot ignore the issue of abortion. No financial or environmental gains are to me worth furthering the pro-choice agenda. McCain's choice of VP strongly states his campaigns stand in this area.

User avatar
BigO
Dragon
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:23 pm
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Contact:

Post by BigO »

Dracorat wrote:
Full Bleed wrote:1) Here's my opinion and I don't want to hear what you have to say about it because I'm not posting here again.


I couldn't let this one go, sorry.

I'm not posting again (except to clear this up) because while I am OK with stating my opinion so people know it, I don't want things to devolve in to a pissing match, which they usually do with these subjects. The best way to manage that, I've found is to not debate, but rather, state your opinion and recognize that other people have theirs, and no one needs to explain themselves to another person.

I welcome people to respond to my post if they feel, but I won't be following up as I don't have a need to be right nor to make anyone else feel like they are wrong. My opinion is stated and for me, that's good enough.

--Dracorat (who really hopes this really is the last post I have to post on this subject)

Well said Dracorat. That's a healthy attitude. And it will probably keep you out of trouble. :)

I don't mind stirring the pot a bit though. Case in point, I was once on an 8 hour road trip with my wife and her father. My wife was very adamant that I shouldn't talk to him about politics because she knew that he had very strong opinions (to the point that lobbying in Washington was actually part of his job) but I couldn't help it. Him and I talked about politics almost the whole way. We had nearly polar opposite views on nearly every topic, but I LOVED the conversation. She was in the back seat trying desperately to change the subject, certain that we would erupt into fisticuffs at any moment, but quite the opposite happened. We had a very long debate and came out of it with a much improved mutual respect for each other.

There's something about the mental back-and-forth you can get when debating a topic that I really really enjoy. Granted, it's only fun if both parties can keep from getting personal and angry, but some of the best conversations I've ever had have been with people that I don't agree with at all.
--O

I am a small and fragile flower.
http://maptool.rocks.andyousuck.com

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4547
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: MD
Contact:

Post by Full Bleed »

BigO wrote:There's something about the mental back-and-forth you can get when debating a topic that I really really enjoy. Granted, it's only fun if both parties can keep from getting personal and angry, but some of the best conversations I've ever had have been with people that I don't agree with at all.


I agree.

But face-to-face discussions on intense issues are almost always more civil than internet debate. People say and "do" stuff on the internet that they'd never do in a f2f argument. These issues *are* very personal. So expecting people to "not take them personally" is ridiculous.


BigO wrote:If you're looking for team building exercises or campfire singing then I would suggest that you start a new thread in the general discussion section for it. If however you'd like to talk about politics then you are in the right thread.


Sorry for caring about the fact that this used to be one of the most pleasant forums to participate in on the net. People knew not to start arguing about things like politics and religion because nothing good comes from it.

This is a community that was galvanized by the love of the project and gaming. Injecting the most divisive elements of our society into the mix is exactly what I'd do if I wanted to come in here and wreck the atmosphere. But if you think that what this community needs is more tension and contentious debate, then by all means, keep stirring the pot.


Dracorat wrote:I couldn't let this one go, sorry.


See how easy it was to draw you back in... even when you knew that you didn't "want to fight"? And I was not even challenging the context of your message. I was not disagreeing with you at all. But it was a good example of how touchy these subjects are when someone feels they can only respond the way you did.


Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've got more constructive things to spend my time on.

User avatar
Azhrei
Site Admin
Posts: 12058
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by Azhrei »

I agree that stating an opinion and not trying to force it on someone else is probably fine for this thread. But when it becomes an attempt to make converts out of one's readers, you've gone too far.

My leaning is libertarian. That means that in general I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. (That's not exactly right or there wouldn't be a "libertarian" label to begin with!)

I've not seen the conservatives being very "fiscal" lately, at the national level anyway, so I'm turned off of the conservative party. The liberal party wants to spend a lot of money on things that might actually help the country, but I'm worried about where the money will come from. It's easy to say that when we end our occupation of Iraq (note: the war was over years ago) that we'll have plenty of money. But we already have a 9 trillion dollar debt because of that occupation and associated screwups -- I don't want to see the money diverted to something else, I want to see the bills paid off!

I am truly saddened by the state of politics in this country. I am saddened that the parties have managed to so polarize the country into "red" states and "blue" states that no discussion can be had without someone yelling "traitor" to a patriot. I am saddened that when ideas are brought to the table they are shot down by a vocal minority instead of investigated to determine their value. I am saddened that my country was founded on the principles of individual liberty but there is very little of that to be found today: our government tells us what we can and cannot do in matters that don't concern them (abortion and gay marriage being the big ones). I am saddened that our government spends taxpayer money funding the agenda of religious organizations.

I don't agree with Obama on a few topics, but I certainly don't want a conservative in the White House. The odds are good that the next president will be selecting two, perhaps three, Supreme Court justices and the pendulum has already swung too far to the right for my tastes. While I may not be voting Democrat, I cannot in good conscience vote Republican. (Which is how I have voted in prior elections, but not 2000 or 2004. I was registered as Independent until I switched to Republican so that I could vote for Ron Paul in the Florida primary (we're a closed primary state) but I will be switching my registration back before this election.)

[moderator]
I don't plan to touch this thread unless a real war breaks out. If you think your comments will incite a riot, please don't post them.
[/moderator]

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”