only when viewed as ASCIIFull Bleed wrote:
Yeah, but X does not equal x.
to Humans they have the same value just a slightly different font
X = 6
x = 6
so
X=x
Moderators: dorpond, trevor, Azhrei
I'm glad you came out and said it I think that's why it's our job to keep bringing fort "playability" issues..that's our contribution.thelevitator wrote:I'm not a programmer..What I'm not comfortable with is the seemingly increasingly separatist attitude that is making people like me feel like idiots for not being programmers. I'm starting to get the message that only the elite coders of the world will be able to use this program, and that people like me will be groveling at their feet for help on getting the functionality we want and have access to all of the goodies. ..What I don't care for is my personal sense that MT is turning into a 2 class program; where the elites get to use all of the goodies and us average users are stuck begging for scraps from the big table... as one of those "average" users, don't want to get lost in the shuffle.
Lev, I agree. I've made several pleas for usability vs. coding purism. There is a reason we have business analyst decide what programs should do and coders figuring out implementation. This is discussion is a classic, in the bits, opinion spewing example of why BAs tell coders what to code without telling them how to code it.thelevitator wrote:I'm not a programmer, but I think I am one of the original 50 members of this forum.
I think this is a very valid point for the dev team to keep in mind as they continue to add features. However, I have somewhat of a different perspective on what's been happening.thelevitator wrote:What I don't care for is my personal sense that MT is turning into a 2 class program; where the elites get to use all of the goodies and us average users are stuck begging for scraps from the big table
I absolutely agree with this.thelevitator wrote:I'm not a programmer, but I think I am one of the original 50 members of this forum. I've been using this program since at least 1.1, maybe even before. I have to say that I'm a bit wary of how MT has been evolving over the last 6 months. It feels like the program is starting to be developed on the assumption that people have to be programmers to enjoy the full features of the program. It's starting to make this long-time user and idea contributor feel pretty left out.
I'm all for the development of new features and the evolution of this program. What I'm not comfortable with is the seemingly increasingly separatist attitude that is making people like me feel like idiots for not being programmers. I'm starting to get the message that only the elite coders of the world will be able to use this program, and that people like me will be groveling at their feet for help on getting the functionality we want and have access to all of the goodies. I understand that in the development phase, that certain protocol must be followed for consistency, and that things will usually start out more complex to then be refined and streamlined for us "average" users.
What I don't care for is my personal sense that MT is turning into a 2 class program; where the elites get to use all of the goodies and us average users are stuck begging for scraps from the big table.
My ultimate hope is that once everyone agrees on the structure, that some effort will be made to make the program accessible to non-programmers who don't want to have to depend on programmers to enjoy the program. So I'm thrilled at the rapid evolution of MT, it's just that I, as one of those "average" users, don't want to get lost in the shuffle.
Huh. Well, not exactly the solution I was expecting, but that works for me.giliath wrote:I went ahead and added a strict string equals and string not equals function that does not trim and does a case sensitive compare. I did not add operators for this at this time.
eqs, strEquals, equalsStrict
You can call eqs("FOO", "foo") and it will return false.
neqs, strNotEquals, notEqualsStrict
You can call neqs("FOO", "foo") and it will return true.
Feel free to call it bullcrap, but I think it's a bit shortsighted to not notice a pretty clear division in the users of this program between those that can code and manipulate it and those that can't.Aria wrote:I completely disagree about the coders and not-coders bullcrap. I scripted for NWN and NWN2 for years and many people who could not script were overjoyed when I and other coders in the scripting community produced easy to use script packages that were fully integrated with each other, thoroughly bug tested, and not bloated. They were also very well commented so even non-coders who wanted to dabble, could figure some simple things out.
I never felt superior over those people. I was glad they enjoyed the scripts. I was glad to be of service. It's no different than the complex macro's being posted here. Some people will never be able to figure out how to make their own complex macros and will rely on others to provide packages of macros for those people.
If you feel like you're superior for being able to write a macro someone else can't... that's not a problem with MapTool usability.
oh.. and Perl!BigO wrote:Let's look at it this way. What are the most common programming languages in use today? For Windows it's C++, C#, VB.NET, or Java. For Mac it's C++, Java, or objective C. For *NIX it's C, C++, or Java. For the web it's JavaScript, and server-side stuff based on Java, C#, PHP, or VB.NET.Big_Mac wrote:C#(C Sharp) is so far the only noted language that is Case sensitive.
Exactly, and whats more is that Microsoft clearly states in all their "best practice" documentation that the first thing you should do in VB is to turn on the option to make it case sensitive.BigO wrote:If I counted right, that list contained 8 different languages. Of those 8, ONLY ONE is not case sensitive, that being VB.
What he said..... consistency is the key.BigO wrote: Now, having said that, do I think that this is how MT macro syntax should be? Not really. I'd like to be able to choose to compare strings in a case sensitive or in-sensitive way, and I just want the variable name usage to be consistent, weather that be case sensitive or not.
I R != L337!!thelevitator wrote:I'm not a programmer, but I think I am one of the original 50 members of this forum. I've been using this program since at least 1.1, maybe even before. I have to say that I'm a bit wary of how MT has been evolving over the last 6 months. It feels like the program is starting to be developed on the assumption that people have to be programmers to enjoy the full features of the program. It's starting to make this long-time user and idea contributor feel pretty left out.
I'm all for the development of new features and the evolution of this program. What I'm not comfortable with is the seemingly increasingly separatist attitude that is making people like me feel like idiots for not being programmers. I'm starting to get the message that only the elite coders of the world will be able to use this program, and that people like me will be groveling at their feet for help on getting the functionality we want and have access to all of the goodies. I understand that in the development phase, that certain protocol must be followed for consistency, and that things will usually start out more complex to then be refined and streamlined for us "average" users.
What I don't care for is my personal sense that MT is turning into a 2 class program; where the elites get to use all of the goodies and us average users are stuck begging for scraps from the big table.
My ultimate hope is that once everyone agrees on the structure, that some effort will be made to make the program accessible to non-programmers who don't want to have to depend on programmers to enjoy the program. So I'm thrilled at the rapid evolution of MT, it's just that I, as one of those "average" users, don't want to get lost in the shuffle.
Agreed. All or nothing case insensitive, all in one shot. Either change it all at one time or never change any of it.RPTroll wrote:I apologize ahead of time for anyone this might offended.
Lev, I agree. I've made several pleas for usability vs. coding purism. There is a reason we have business analyst decide what programs should do and coders figuring out implementation. This is discussion is a classic, in the bits, opinion spewing example of why BAs tell coders what to code without telling them how to code it.thelevitator wrote:I'm not a programmer, but I think I am one of the original 50 members of this forum.
I hate to use the term drivel but that's what this topic feels like. In the end it just doesn't matter if things are case sensitive not. It affects usability not one whit and the only impact is some possible macro rewrites.
My only really argument on this subject is that MT should be as consistent as possible.
Right, and thats why, even as a coder, I made the default properties patch. As a coder and as a person before I was a coder, I HATE to repeat myself, so I added the default properties.RPTroll wrote:My hope is that the non-coders will be able to find a macro/properties set they like, rip it off and run with it. You don't have to know the formula behind it you only have to know it works.